John Adams Read-a-Long :: Week Two
Welcome! We are reading through David McCullough’s John Adams this April, May, and June. Feel free to jump in at any time. You can see our reading schedule and guidelines in the starting post. Feel free to leave your thoughts on this week’s reading or a link to your updates in the comments section! (NOTE: The following post and comments will contain spoilers.)
Week Two
Chapter: Two
What I Thought:
It’s hard to break these chapters into bite size conversation pieces. Really, we could have a sit-down dinner and wine in person bookclub for this and talk for hours on each chapter. I wish we could. However, I will do my best to point out the things that caught my eye (which was mostly everything, so I will try not to rewrite the chapter).
Things I found interesting and or loved:
- The first library in the United States was in Philly… I am SO going there someday!
- Philly was the publishing capital of the colonies. I wonder what happened to change that to New York. Growth of the city of NYC, do you suppose?
- Pennsylvania currency was mentioned. I never thought of the colonies as having different currencies, as though they were different countries. I suppose I thought they all just used British currency. However I guess it would make sense that they would use something else, seeing that the first arrivers probably didn’t bring much paper currency with them. I wonder how this all changed into the monetary system we have today. i hope some of it is mentioned in the book!
- I am in perpetual awe of the fact that these people were creating an entirely new government. Imagine having a clean slate and picking the government that one thinks is best. What a burden and what an opportunity. Cliche as it sounds it’s amazing, really, to think about. I know that life expectancy back then wasn’t as long as today (even though many of these men lived into their 70s and 80s and John Adams died at 90), it’s hard for me to wrap my brain around the fact that they were so young! Thomas Jefferson, at 33, was only two years older than I am! And Adams himself was only 41. Granted there were others helping, but still — such young men to be creating one of the most important declarations of modern history. I, honestly, cannot think of any 33 years-olds that I know who I would sent to the Second Congress (can you?) were it to happen today. It just shows you how very different society was back then to have developed such influential, thoughtful people — values, lifestyle, expectations, education, etc.
- It’s interesting to me that neither Adams nor Jefferson were well traveled. I do hope we learn more about this. I also hope that they are able to visit more of the colonies before becoming president (respectively). Although I know that travel was difficult, it would be odd to govern places one has never even seen (though I’m sure it happened all the time in ancient times). It seems to go against much of what they are working for at the Second Congress.
- Amazing that one decision meant that Jefferson would go down in history as writer of Declaration of Independence instead of Adams. On that subject, I think we should have it recorded that Jefferson penned the Declaration not that he wrote it. I always seem to see it conveyed that he wrote it — makes it seem like he did it alone and then had it approved by others if you don’t know more about it. (That’s not the way it went down right? I’m getting that the group wrote it together, but Jefferson put it on paper.)
- These men are impressing me with how radical they were in their thinking. For all of their lives they have been told and trained that there are hierarchies of humans, yet here they are – about to wage war – to say otherwise. Huuuuge deal.
- I didn’t understand why Dickinson was so popular and why Adams was hated so much after the incident with Dickinson. Can someone explain?
- On page 118 (of the hardcover) , towards the end of the chapter– were the colonies asking that they not be traded with until after they became independent? Why?
- Why was it so clear that having Virginians do the writing of the Declaration and the commanding of the army be a political advantage?
- George Washintgon had no children and was not affiliated with a political party. John Adams was a (gasp!) Unitarian. Thomas Jefferson (besides owning slaves) was a (double gasp!) agnostic. Think they would be able to be elected into office today? (Couldn’t help but do a little research while reading this book).
Who’s Reading Along:
Cindi
Trisha
@jackiemania
Patti Smith
Michelle @ The True Book Addict
Julie G
Katy F.
June Morgan (chorkie)
socrmom78 (Pam)
Melissa C.
Kim
Elspeth
Book Snob Wannabe
(If you are participating and I don’t have you on this list, please let me know. I did not include people who said ‘maybe’ so if you have changed your mind and are definitely reading along with us, let me know so I can add you. Also, if you are not going to be able to join us anymore please let me know and I will take you off the list. If you go for two weeks without sharing the link for your weekly update in my weekly update comments section, I will assume you are no longer participating and will take you off of the list. Thanks!)
I wish we could all get together with some food and wine (or the cider JA liked, or the sherry, and a colonial feast!) and chat about the book, too!!! if you ever come to Philadelphia, Wallace, I’ll be your tour guide!
The things that stood out to me:
I didn’t realize that the Revolution was not overwhelmingly popular and supported until May of 1776. There was only support of about 1/3 as recent as January of that year! That was really surprising to me. I had this idea in my head that everyone wanted to break free from British rule from the get-go. (Wallace – I think this might be why Dickinson was more popular at the time of their disagreement. Popular sentiment was on his side (reconciliation w Britain) at the time).
I couldn’t stop picturing John Adams and Thomas Jefferson as the Colonial Odd Couple
Go Abigail! I loved how she playfully (but firmly!) put in a word for women with John.
I’m a born and raised Philadelphian! I now live 10 minutes outside of the city, but lived in the city proper until 3 years ago, so I am intimately acquainted with all of the places that they talk about in this chapter. I am having such an interesting time imagining the places that were fields or markets or almost rural where I now know there are discount department stores or tons of row homes.
Publishing industry: NYC had bigger houses, so they were able to undercut prices. Sound familiar? :/
About your question #4: I have to admit that I’m into all those Mason conspiracy theories a la Dan Brown about the symbolism in our currency, the way Washington DC is laid out, etc etc etc. With all of the things going on in our country right now, it WOULD seem that this way of looking at the world would not be popular with the majority of today’s voters, to put it mildly. Nor would the level of education of these people (I was watching George W. Bush bloopers on youtube the other night and couldn’t believe this was our president, especially compared to the people we are reading about in JA! I think we have been in an anti-intellectual downward spiral here in the USA since post WWII but I digress). But yes, for so many reasons, I agree with you!
Fun! I do plan on coming in the not too distant future, so I will need lots of advice on where to go.
That makes sense about why DIckinson was more popular than Adams. I don’t know why I missed that considering it took them so long to come to an agreement about when to publish the Declaration. Thanks for clearing that up!
Oh my gosh — I can’t believe i didn’t mention ABIGAIL, that was one of my favorite parts! And the fact that he actually sent her the declaration. I wonder how many other wives got a copy of it.
Thanks for answering my other Q’s as well. This book is bringing up lots of thoughts… I am really happy at how “real” McCullough is making these people (and times) feel.
Hi:
I don’t know if anyone else answered this, but I think that the reason Virginia and Virginians were thought best to be at the “head of this business” as JA says in the HBO movie, is because Virginia at the time was the richest and most powerful colony at the time, and that carried weight. In MA (where I am from) they were just rabble rousers. lol. What impressed me the most about this chapter is the power of observation on the part of everyone–McCullough clearly was reading more than JA’s diary and letters in preparing the book. It makes me wonder if our powers of observation are as strong today. Everything goes so fast with email, the net, telecommunications and tv–I think we have lost something because we are so bombarded with speed and information all the time. Also, I love JA’s continued human-ness, interaction and sometimes grumpiness when others don’t see reason as he does!! Looking forward to next chapter!
Kim
Oh, that makes sense (about VA), I didn’t realize that. Thanks!
You are right… not many of us take the time to write things down anymore, and when we do we write in haste (and abbreviations). Plus we text, talk on the phone, and do “face time” a lot more than writing letters or e-mails. Not much of a recording for history there, is it?
The other thing about Virginians–they wanted to have Virginians involved because they were the richest colony, and also because it gave weight to the idea that the colonies were united in opposition to Britain. If Massachusetts were doing everything (though they were some of the most vocal for independence), it wouldn’t be as effective. Massachusetts had been the area clamped down on the hardest with the Coercive/Intolerable Acts, and to show that the colonies were behind them and unified, they needed to include Virginians (representatives of the South standing alongside representatives of New England).
I will try to tackle question #1:
1)Dickinson was from Philly where the Congress met. He was also rich and married to a Quaker lady. Quakers were big in PA back then.
2)Dickinson wrote “Letters From a Pennsylvania Farmer” which as McCullough writes, made him a hero (even though he wasn’t even a farmer or a PA native)
3)Dickinson was also a colonel in the army, so his ideas on war may have carried more weight than Adams’.
4)Adams took the low road and blamed Dickinson’s desire for peace on his Quakerism in a letter and ripped on Dickinson as a “piddling genius”. Not good.
5)The letter was intercepted by British spies and printed in a paper for all to see, which didn’t go over well with his fellow Congressmen and most of Philly since it’s Dickinson’s hometown. Airing dirty laundry makes everyone uncomfortable.
My review on Chapter Two is up!
http://prologuebooks.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/chapter-2-john-adams/
Haha, yes.. that makes sense! Thanks! Heading over to read your post now.
I most definitely wish we could get together face to face and discuss. The book is just overflowing – like every single page of it – with information and fodder for discussion. I had the same question as you regarding the Virginians. Being (apparently completely) ignorant about this time period, I do not know why Virginia had an elevated place in the colonies’ hierarchy.
As for question #4… I know, right?
And my link: http://www.eclectic-eccentric.com/2011/04/readalong-john-adams-true-blue.html
Did you see Kim’s answer above about the Virginian’s?
#4 — ! (Makes you wonder if we are going backwards or forwards here… probably a little of both at the same time, haha).
Off to read your update now.
Hi Wallace,
Just wanted to let you know that I will not have an update this week. I was sick half the week and when I wasn’t sick, we were busy moving stuff out of our old house. I will catch up next week with an update for both weeks so I can take into account your questions, which were excellent, by the way.
Have a lovely weekend!
Thanks for letting me know! Congrats on being done with the move — hope you feel better soon! Good luck on catching up. Let us know if you need the Cliff’s Notes version.
I love this readalong idea. I plan to read John Adams in the near-future, but can’t spare the time for the readalong. Following along eagerly.
Glad you’re following along anyway!
I am reading… just wanted to confirm!
Thanks for letting me know!
Like previous comments, this chapter contained alot of information that I felt that I needed to do additional reading before moving forward. Also, can you add me to the list of participants for the readalong? Thanks!!
Here is my review: http://booksnobwannabe.blogspot.com/2011/04/read-long-john-adams-by-david_16.html
I really liked your comments on this chapter & couldn’t agree with you more!
You’re added.
Here is my check-in, which covers both chapters 1 and 2: http://fewmorepages.blogspot.com/2011/04/john-adams-readalong-chapters-1-2.html
Regarding your 2nd question, “were the colonies asking that they not be traded with until after they became independent? Why?”
I’m guessing you mean this part: “…they declared public opinion to be ahead of Congress: that ‘the people wait for us to lead the way,’ that the European powers would neither trade nor treat with the colonies until they established independence, that ‘the present [military] campaign may be unsuccessful, and therefore we had better propose an alliance while our affairs wear a hopeful aspect.’”
They (supporters of a declaration of independence) were saying that if they did not declare independence, European powers would not recognize them as independent and would not treat them as an independent nation. They would not trade with the colonies or make treaties with them until they declared independence. With war going on and disrupting trade (especially the sale of American crops), and with American colonists boycotting British goods, they would have wanted that European trade to occur. And with independence on the table they would have been more willing to get on the ground floor of starting good relations with a new nation on the scene (especially if they disliked Britain–ahem, France).
Ah that makes more sense. Thank you. I had read it as though they were declaring that they shouldn’t be traded with UNTIL they got their independence. Now that makes more sense.
I have had technical problems with our router so my post went up late.
Yes, I was also wondering why Virginia was so important and was assuming it had to do with the wealthy who lived there, since they mentioned how they rode into town in all their finery on shining horses…something to that effect:)
I loved how he described Jefferson’s background/upbringing in a nutshell, but it was just so clear what a southern gent he was, and how slaves did everything for him from morning until night.
I also found his comments about the catholic mass really interesting.
I know! I was shocked at how reliant on slaves Jefferson was as well. A little disturbing (even though I know it was the norm in the south back then).
I am catching up still but do plan on posting my notes on chapters 1-3 probably friday! I hope that is okay?
Of course! Thanks for letting me know.