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	<title>Comments for Unputdownables</title>
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		<title>Comment on A Moveable Feast :: Final Review by Ashley J.</title>
		<link>http://unputdownables.net/2012/02/24/a-moveable-feast-final-review/#comment-7238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ashley J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 19:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unputdownables.net/?p=4756#comment-7238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I think these last two weeks of reading have done more to endear me to Hem than anything else I have ever read by him. I did enjoy that at the end of the restored edition there were all these different versions of how Hem would have ended the book, but they all said pretty much the same thing - that Hadley is the heroine and that this was a work of fiction. I have to agree with him on both accounts. It was difficult for me to take anything he said seriously, so when I gave up trying to read everything as fact, it made it much more enjoyable. 

I did enjoy the chapter &quot;The Pilot Fish and the Rich&quot; - it followed closely what I had already read in the Paris Wife. I think the thing that upset me the most in the Paris Wife was how callous Hem seemed in dealing with his leaving Hadley, but in The Pilot Fish and the Rich, I&#039;m glad to see some atonement. I was intrigued with Hem&#039;s stance on androgyny and the duality of the matching haircuts with Hadley. It seems to crop up again in another work of his published after his death - Garden of Eden. 

All in all, it&#039;s still hard for me to fully enjoy Hemingway, especially with reading the Paris Wife alongside this. However, it&#039;s a very specific picture he paints of Paris and his writing, and I can appreciate and respect that. Looking forward to Bleak House up next!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I think these last two weeks of reading have done more to endear me to Hem than anything else I have ever read by him. I did enjoy that at the end of the restored edition there were all these different versions of how Hem would have ended the book, but they all said pretty much the same thing &#8211; that Hadley is the heroine and that this was a work of fiction. I have to agree with him on both accounts. It was difficult for me to take anything he said seriously, so when I gave up trying to read everything as fact, it made it much more enjoyable. </p>
<p>I did enjoy the chapter &#8220;The Pilot Fish and the Rich&#8221; &#8211; it followed closely what I had already read in the Paris Wife. I think the thing that upset me the most in the Paris Wife was how callous Hem seemed in dealing with his leaving Hadley, but in The Pilot Fish and the Rich, I&#8217;m glad to see some atonement. I was intrigued with Hem&#8217;s stance on androgyny and the duality of the matching haircuts with Hadley. It seems to crop up again in another work of his published after his death &#8211; Garden of Eden. </p>
<p>All in all, it&#8217;s still hard for me to fully enjoy Hemingway, especially with reading the Paris Wife alongside this. However, it&#8217;s a very specific picture he paints of Paris and his writing, and I can appreciate and respect that. Looking forward to Bleak House up next!</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Moveable Feast :: Final Review by gingko</title>
		<link>http://unputdownables.net/2012/02/24/a-moveable-feast-final-review/#comment-7237</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gingko]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 19:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unputdownables.net/?p=4756#comment-7237</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I found the conversation between Hemingway and Fitzgerald about sex very lovely. And when reading it, I thought the same as you did, &quot;I don&#039;t think men today would have such conversations!&quot; I think it&#039;s partially due to the homophobia culture formed in the past decades, and partially because people are more into egoism than intimate friendship. 

On Jacqueline&#039;s comments, honestly I don&#039;t feel Hemingway betrayed his contemporaries. Most of the people he critiqued, mocked or whose weird behaviors he talked about, I still think they are lovely (especially when I don&#039;t have to suffer from their weirdness), and their weaknesses (including Hemingway&#039;s) are partially why they are lovely. I kind of like this sort of ruthless writing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found the conversation between Hemingway and Fitzgerald about sex very lovely. And when reading it, I thought the same as you did, &#8220;I don&#8217;t think men today would have such conversations!&#8221; I think it&#8217;s partially due to the homophobia culture formed in the past decades, and partially because people are more into egoism than intimate friendship. </p>
<p>On Jacqueline&#8217;s comments, honestly I don&#8217;t feel Hemingway betrayed his contemporaries. Most of the people he critiqued, mocked or whose weird behaviors he talked about, I still think they are lovely (especially when I don&#8217;t have to suffer from their weirdness), and their weaknesses (including Hemingway&#8217;s) are partially why they are lovely. I kind of like this sort of ruthless writing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Moveable Feast :: Final Review by Ashley</title>
		<link>http://unputdownables.net/2012/02/24/a-moveable-feast-final-review/#comment-7236</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ashley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 17:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unputdownables.net/?p=4756#comment-7236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with you about Fitzgerald. I found the chapters about him (which, due to my edition, I read this week) to be quite endearing and funny. A Matter of Measurements made me literally laugh out loud--but aside from the absurdity of it (I don&#039;t think men today would have such conversations) it showed Hemingway and Fitzgerald as friends. Their interactions were so casual, and it was interesting that, for the first  time in the book, I felt as though Hemingway wasn&#039;t guarded.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you about Fitzgerald. I found the chapters about him (which, due to my edition, I read this week) to be quite endearing and funny. A Matter of Measurements made me literally laugh out loud&#8211;but aside from the absurdity of it (I don&#8217;t think men today would have such conversations) it showed Hemingway and Fitzgerald as friends. Their interactions were so casual, and it was interesting that, for the first  time in the book, I felt as though Hemingway wasn&#8217;t guarded.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Moveable Feast :: Final Review by Wallace</title>
		<link>http://unputdownables.net/2012/02/24/a-moveable-feast-final-review/#comment-7235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unputdownables.net/?p=4756#comment-7235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That IS interesting (about the money in particular). He was right, Hadley did end up the best of all of them in the end by finding a better husband, ha!

I can&#039;t agree with her on the jealousy equals length issue as Stein was (and is) not famous for her writing, so he had nothing to be jealous about in that area. It does seem that he ended up not liking her (possibly because of her power over artists -- now THAT may be what he was jealous of), but I don&#039;t see him envying her writing as he was far more famous for his than she ever was for hers. And I know I am a lone wolf on this one, but I just don&#039;t think he tore Fitzgerald down that much. Nothing that he said about Fitz made me think any less of him. Hearing that he thwarted his wife&#039;s writing makes me think poorly, but Hemingway didn&#039;t include that. In fact, the message I got from Hemingway about Fitzgerald was that he was almost an abused man - writing beautiful things despite his horrible circumstances with Zelda (who not only tried to keep him from writing, but also manipulated him into being insecure). Perhaps Hemingway was trying to rip Fitzgerald apart and he just didn&#039;t do a very good job at it? Haha... oh jeez... now that would (almost) be sad. 

I hold to my opinion that it was not fiction, but rather a recollection that was one-sided. However, I am not surprised to learn that she thought it was based more on memories than his journals -- I very much go that idea too, especially after the chapter when Shipman came back to see him and they wandered down memory lane. It almost seems as if he put pen to paper right then (maybe why Shipman is depicted so kindly?)! I seriously wonder. Those of us who read the Restored Edition may possibly have been less influenced by his statement of fiction, as we didn&#039;t read it until the end -- though we had all already talked about his stories being very one sided recollections of a life lived 40 years prior. Perhaps it softens the story more in the older editions when it is read first?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That IS interesting (about the money in particular). He was right, Hadley did end up the best of all of them in the end by finding a better husband, ha!</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t agree with her on the jealousy equals length issue as Stein was (and is) not famous for her writing, so he had nothing to be jealous about in that area. It does seem that he ended up not liking her (possibly because of her power over artists &#8212; now THAT may be what he was jealous of), but I don&#8217;t see him envying her writing as he was far more famous for his than she ever was for hers. And I know I am a lone wolf on this one, but I just don&#8217;t think he tore Fitzgerald down that much. Nothing that he said about Fitz made me think any less of him. Hearing that he thwarted his wife&#8217;s writing makes me think poorly, but Hemingway didn&#8217;t include that. In fact, the message I got from Hemingway about Fitzgerald was that he was almost an abused man &#8211; writing beautiful things despite his horrible circumstances with Zelda (who not only tried to keep him from writing, but also manipulated him into being insecure). Perhaps Hemingway was trying to rip Fitzgerald apart and he just didn&#8217;t do a very good job at it? Haha&#8230; oh jeez&#8230; now that would (almost) be sad. </p>
<p>I hold to my opinion that it was not fiction, but rather a recollection that was one-sided. However, I am not surprised to learn that she thought it was based more on memories than his journals &#8212; I very much go that idea too, especially after the chapter when Shipman came back to see him and they wandered down memory lane. It almost seems as if he put pen to paper right then (maybe why Shipman is depicted so kindly?)! I seriously wonder. Those of us who read the Restored Edition may possibly have been less influenced by his statement of fiction, as we didn&#8217;t read it until the end &#8212; though we had all already talked about his stories being very one sided recollections of a life lived 40 years prior. Perhaps it softens the story more in the older editions when it is read first?</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Moveable Feast :: Final Review by JacquelineM (@jackiemania)</title>
		<link>http://unputdownables.net/2012/02/24/a-moveable-feast-final-review/#comment-7234</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JacquelineM (@jackiemania)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unputdownables.net/?p=4756#comment-7234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I too am very glad I read this book. I&#039;ve always heard people saying it&#039;s a romantic take on post WW1 Paris and it was...interesting to find my own opinion on this. I did not find it so at all. At its best, it held some gut punches and pin in the balloon moments about life and love, but at its worst, I found it low and mean and fragmentary. In fact, I found his betrayal of his contemporaries so disgusting that I most likely won&#039;t be reading more Hemingway. 

I intensely felt that Hemingway was not telling the truth in this book. It bothered me so much that I sought out the book Ernest Hemingway&#039;s A Moveable Feast: The Making of Myth by Jacqueline Tavernier-Courbin. The author argues that A Moveable Feast is a reconstruction of the past, not a recollection of it. Her research shows that most of it was written in the last years of his life (and not stories taken from a trunk that sat in the Ritz Carlton for decades). 

I just got the book on Tuesday night, so I haven&#039;t been able to read the whole thing, but here a few choice quotes:

&quot;The greatest falsehood of all, however, surely is Hemingway&#039;s oft repeated claim of poverty ... What makes this game unpalatable is the fact that his so-called poverty was a deliberate fabrication from the beginning, and that he capitalized on the real suffering of others to build his own myth ... In fact the Hemingways were far from poor. As Michael Reynolds established recently, Hadley&#039;s income was by itself sufficient to keep them in comfort even in the United States, yet alone France where life was cheaper.&quot; (p. 91)

She goes on to give actual figures on Hadley&#039;s inheritance, and she calculates them to be ten times richer than the average French person of the time simply from Hadley&#039;s money! This figure did not take into consideration any of Hemingway&#039;s money. To make it even worse, Hemingway controlled the money, and was so tightfisted WITH HER MONEY. There is a really terrible episode recounted in letters where Bumby had the whooping cough and Hadley didn&#039;t even have money to pay the doctors or get groceries (she had to borrow it) but Hemingway was accusing her of living grand (he was off in Spain).

I find this really disturbing. The book goes on and on about different falsehoods. If there are any particular passages that you are interested in seeing if Tavernier-Courbin has discussed, I will be happy to look into them over the weekend. Just comment :)

The other issue I have regarding Hemingway&#039;s utter meanness is addressed in this passage:

&quot;There is, of course, a great deal of hostility in his showing his contemporaries in the worst light. The greater the competition they offered, the more negatively and at a greater length they are portrayed. Ford and Walsh rate only one chapter, while both Stein and Fitzgerald rate three each. However, in page count, Fitzgerald&#039;s chapters are twice as long as Stein&#039;s. Scott was his greatest competitor in the literary field; therefore, he needed to be destroyed more thoroughly than anyone else, and since he could not be attacked credibly on an artistic level, he had to be destroyed as a man and as an undisciplined writer.&quot; (p. 108)

One more passage that I think captures my feelings on the book in a nutshell:

&quot;He does not want to be held liable for the accuracy of what he narrates and therefore claims it&#039;s fiction; but he wants readers to believe it as fact and in order to make that possible, he creates through devious means a context that will influence their judgment.&quot; (p. 106)

Ugly. ugly, ugly. No thank you, Hemingway. It didn&#039;t work on me!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too am very glad I read this book. I&#8217;ve always heard people saying it&#8217;s a romantic take on post WW1 Paris and it was&#8230;interesting to find my own opinion on this. I did not find it so at all. At its best, it held some gut punches and pin in the balloon moments about life and love, but at its worst, I found it low and mean and fragmentary. In fact, I found his betrayal of his contemporaries so disgusting that I most likely won&#8217;t be reading more Hemingway. </p>
<p>I intensely felt that Hemingway was not telling the truth in this book. It bothered me so much that I sought out the book Ernest Hemingway&#8217;s A Moveable Feast: The Making of Myth by Jacqueline Tavernier-Courbin. The author argues that A Moveable Feast is a reconstruction of the past, not a recollection of it. Her research shows that most of it was written in the last years of his life (and not stories taken from a trunk that sat in the Ritz Carlton for decades). </p>
<p>I just got the book on Tuesday night, so I haven&#8217;t been able to read the whole thing, but here a few choice quotes:</p>
<p>&#8220;The greatest falsehood of all, however, surely is Hemingway&#8217;s oft repeated claim of poverty &#8230; What makes this game unpalatable is the fact that his so-called poverty was a deliberate fabrication from the beginning, and that he capitalized on the real suffering of others to build his own myth &#8230; In fact the Hemingways were far from poor. As Michael Reynolds established recently, Hadley&#8217;s income was by itself sufficient to keep them in comfort even in the United States, yet alone France where life was cheaper.&#8221; (p. 91)</p>
<p>She goes on to give actual figures on Hadley&#8217;s inheritance, and she calculates them to be ten times richer than the average French person of the time simply from Hadley&#8217;s money! This figure did not take into consideration any of Hemingway&#8217;s money. To make it even worse, Hemingway controlled the money, and was so tightfisted WITH HER MONEY. There is a really terrible episode recounted in letters where Bumby had the whooping cough and Hadley didn&#8217;t even have money to pay the doctors or get groceries (she had to borrow it) but Hemingway was accusing her of living grand (he was off in Spain).</p>
<p>I find this really disturbing. The book goes on and on about different falsehoods. If there are any particular passages that you are interested in seeing if Tavernier-Courbin has discussed, I will be happy to look into them over the weekend. Just comment <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The other issue I have regarding Hemingway&#8217;s utter meanness is addressed in this passage:</p>
<p>&#8220;There is, of course, a great deal of hostility in his showing his contemporaries in the worst light. The greater the competition they offered, the more negatively and at a greater length they are portrayed. Ford and Walsh rate only one chapter, while both Stein and Fitzgerald rate three each. However, in page count, Fitzgerald&#8217;s chapters are twice as long as Stein&#8217;s. Scott was his greatest competitor in the literary field; therefore, he needed to be destroyed more thoroughly than anyone else, and since he could not be attacked credibly on an artistic level, he had to be destroyed as a man and as an undisciplined writer.&#8221; (p. 108)</p>
<p>One more passage that I think captures my feelings on the book in a nutshell:</p>
<p>&#8220;He does not want to be held liable for the accuracy of what he narrates and therefore claims it&#8217;s fiction; but he wants readers to believe it as fact and in order to make that possible, he creates through devious means a context that will influence their judgment.&#8221; (p. 106)</p>
<p>Ugly. ugly, ugly. No thank you, Hemingway. It didn&#8217;t work on me!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Prince Charming, er&#8230; by Alex</title>
		<link>http://unputdownables.net/2012/02/22/prince-charming-er/#comment-7233</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unputdownables.net/?p=4741#comment-7233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Intelligence, steadiness, a bit of broodiness... I&#039;ve always been a Mr. Darcy girl,but I have a tendency to go for the Best Friend, the secondary character that seems to be in the shadow of the Alpha Dog, but also seems to be happier. My ultimate Prince Charming is probably Faramir from Lord of the Rings. He&#039;s a scholar AND a warrior.

Also must add Gilbert from Anne of Green Gables, Rhett from Gone With the Wind and Major Dobbin from Vanity Fair (recent one).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intelligence, steadiness, a bit of broodiness&#8230; I&#8217;ve always been a Mr. Darcy girl,but I have a tendency to go for the Best Friend, the secondary character that seems to be in the shadow of the Alpha Dog, but also seems to be happier. My ultimate Prince Charming is probably Faramir from Lord of the Rings. He&#8217;s a scholar AND a warrior.</p>
<p>Also must add Gilbert from Anne of Green Gables, Rhett from Gone With the Wind and Major Dobbin from Vanity Fair (recent one).</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Moveable Feast Read-a-Long :: Sign Ups &amp; Starting Post by A Moveable Feast :: Final Review &#171; Unputdownables</title>
		<link>http://unputdownables.net/2012/01/26/a-moveable-feast-read-a-long-sign-ups-starting-post/#comment-7232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Moveable Feast :: Final Review &#171; Unputdownables]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 11:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unputdownables.net/?p=4572#comment-7232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Welcome to the A Moveable Feast read-a-long! We’re reading this book through February. You can see the reading schedule and guidelines on the Starting Post Page. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Welcome to the A Moveable Feast read-a-long! We’re reading this book through February. You can see the reading schedule and guidelines on the Starting Post Page. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Prince Charming, er&#8230; by Michelle @ The True Book Addict</title>
		<link>http://unputdownables.net/2012/02/22/prince-charming-er/#comment-7231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle @ The True Book Addict]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 04:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unputdownables.net/?p=4741#comment-7231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is so funny! I repinned Sixteen Candles on Pinterest and in my caption I stated how I had a big crush on him.  You were 3 when it was filmed, I was around 15 or 16 so really right at the age Molly Ringwald was in the film.  I just love that scene and them sitting on the table with the birthday cake at the end.  Every time I watched it, I would get butterflies.  I often wonder what happened to that guy.

My Prince Charming since being a grown up would have to be Mr. Darcy and I&#039;m particularly fond of Jamie in Diana Gabaldon&#039;s Outlander (even though I still haven&#039;t finished the book).

Great post, Wallace!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is so funny! I repinned Sixteen Candles on Pinterest and in my caption I stated how I had a big crush on him.  You were 3 when it was filmed, I was around 15 or 16 so really right at the age Molly Ringwald was in the film.  I just love that scene and them sitting on the table with the birthday cake at the end.  Every time I watched it, I would get butterflies.  I often wonder what happened to that guy.</p>
<p>My Prince Charming since being a grown up would have to be Mr. Darcy and I&#8217;m particularly fond of Jamie in Diana Gabaldon&#8217;s Outlander (even though I still haven&#8217;t finished the book).</p>
<p>Great post, Wallace!</p>
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		<title>Comment on We Read to Know That We Are Not Alone. by softdrink</title>
		<link>http://unputdownables.net/2012/02/23/we-read-to-know-that-we-are-not-alone/#comment-7230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[softdrink]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 03:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unputdownables.net/?p=4699#comment-7230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Love it!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love it!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Prince Charming, er&#8230; by mefinx</title>
		<link>http://unputdownables.net/2012/02/22/prince-charming-er/#comment-7229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mefinx]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unputdownables.net/?p=4741#comment-7229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yes, Doctor Who is a BBC series - I think it&#039;s broadcast on BBC America]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, Doctor Who is a BBC series &#8211; I think it&#8217;s broadcast on BBC America</p>
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